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Rank: Umbracoholic
Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 1,192
Location: Nyborg, Denmark
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@Dirk: While it's clean, it's introducing a whole new concept in umbraco which I'm not a fan of. The more types/concepts the steeper the learning curve especially when it's in abstract areas. I think most people find it steep enough already. Your idea if great, but not everybody are able to think as abstract as you ;-)
I'm ok with a doctype having a master doctype (which is specified when you create it and cannot be changed or removed as that would have insane side effects).
Jeeeez, did I really start this :-)
Founder of the Umbraco project
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Rank: Fanatic
Joined: 8/9/2007
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Location: Kentucky, USA
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I'm happy to see this idea finally catching on.
Pete Koutoulas • Fayette County Public Schools • Lexington, Kentucky
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Rank: Umbracoholic
Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 1,192
Location: Nyborg, Denmark
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Not just catching on, watch this: http://moourl.com/ra5zyThanks for all the inspiration, hope you like it.
Jeeeez, did I really start this :-) Founder of the Umbraco project
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Rank: Aficionado
Joined: 6/5/2008
Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom
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Niels thats great - what quick work! One question: what happens if you have duplicate Tab names in the inheritance ? Also, what happens if you have duplicate property aliases? Let us know when this is in the next nightly build :-) All the best Adam.
Adam Perry ( blog, twitter), developing Umbraco based websites and applications for ConnectDigital.
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 13
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hartvig wrote:Like a dialog that said "Are you sure you want to delete "My Document Type"? Yes! I deleted a few documents the other day by accidentally deleting the document type.
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Rank: Aficionado
Joined: 6/5/2008
Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom
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But Paul - that dialog already exists? At least it does on my install!
Adam Perry ( blog, twitter), developing Umbraco based websites and applications for ConnectDigital.
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 13
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First, I'd like to thank Niels for the shout out in screencast! :) It was actually my colleague Adam Perry (Adz) who provided a lot of the thought on this thread, and so I'm giving him his shout out here!
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Rank: Fanatic
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 292
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Bravo, Niels!!!
Pete Koutoulas • Fayette County Public Schools • Lexington, Kentucky
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Rank: Fanatic
Joined: 1/19/2008
Posts: 230
Location: Belgium
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Great new feature :-)
Dave on Umbraco
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 6/5/2008
Posts: 24
Location: Århus, Denmark
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This is trully great, I too have been missing this feature. This was a fun thread to read. As I read through the thread, I was thinking of good arguments and input (actually maintaining a list in notepad to post when I was done reading), only to find the damn thing already done. My hat is of to you Niels for listening so close to the community and for your swift execution of the matter. In general I think of the argumentation as a battle between best practices. In one corner you got the mantra of simplicity: KISS (Keep it simple stupid) and in the other corner you got DRY (don't repeat yourself), so in the end there are really good arguments for both directions. I'm a big fan of both but I generally favour DRY. I think the solution you created encompasses both, because it's very simple as opposed to multiple inheritance og doctypes with all the problems following and you can even forget about it and fell almost no change in umbraco and it gives us the ability to centralize the handling of properties for multiple doctypes. Greeeeat!
nörd
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Rank: Fanatic
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Posts: 336
Location: Malmo, Sweden
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Really great Niels! Good screen cast. Can't wait to implement my first v. 4 site!
Still, Dirks suggestion with 'Property sets' would be the ideal, at least from my point of view.
Is it me or umbraco? Umbraco Certified Professional Level 2.
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Rank: Aficionado
Joined: 7/19/2006
Posts: 176
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Why can't I see this screencast? have tried IE and FF It seems like you guys, can see it... right?
CPalm, www.cpalm.dk
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Rank: Umbracoholic
Joined: 9/8/2006
Posts: 2,020
Location: MA, USA; Cambridge, UK
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@Christian... just tried the screencast again... no problem (FF301/win). Maybe you've got a firewall or some other tool "protecting" you that is getting in the way? cheers, doug.
MVP 2007-2009 - Percipient Studios - Percipient Blog
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Rank: Aficionado
Joined: 12/15/2006
Posts: 116
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Nice work Niels, just they way I'd thought it would work.
I take it adding /deleting properties from the master document type is permitted?
___________________________________________________________________________________
Neil
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Rank: Umbracoholic
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@NeigG: Yes it is.
Jeeeez, did I really start this :-)
Founder of the Umbraco project
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:d/
Great work! Looking forward to using this now :-)
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Rank: Fanatic
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Location: Malmo, Sweden
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Niels: I'm curious, would it be very complicated to implement inheritance from multiple document types or was this a design decision based on the keep it simple approach?
As an umbraco developer, lately starting up agile projects for several small sites a week for different customers were the detailed requirements tend to change a lot during the earliest implementation, I would say that multiple inheritance would be an great time saver and maybe most of all save developers in agile projects a lot of frustration.
That said, the new feature with single inheritance is a major leap forward in useability and productivity from a developers point of view.
Btw, did you notice that not a single one (I think) on this forum agreed with your initial stubborn position that this feature was not needed... ;) You are not getting to alienated from the experience of end users that are creating new sites daily are you? ;) Thanks for listening and including the feature!
Is it me or umbraco? Umbraco Certified Professional Level 2.
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Rank: Umbracoholic
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Posts: 1,192
Location: Nyborg, Denmark
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@daniel_l:
People who agree is always silent ;-)
But sure I get alienated from not using my software as much as I used to. That's why I'm depending on feedback from you guys and why I want to find side-projects where I can use umbraco early next year (when it's time to prepare for U5). My job is to challenge every single feature that people wants to add, and "no by default" has always been my mantra.
The single inheritance is indeed by design, however just like templates, a master can have a master (so you can do Meta Data Master -> Content Master -> Textpage). I was a compromise between functionality, conventions and learning curve. So that was also why I didn't took the property sets approach even though that - theoretically - would have been a better approach. But that would have introduced a new convention (property sets), which would be defined another place, which again would make the generic property tab more complicated (you can choose between adding a property or adding property sets) and added an even steeper learning curve. From a learning perspective, the document types is a very "fragile" area as it's the foundation for everything in umbraco. The less you need to know to get started the better, thus the less clutter in the UI the better.
I found that the master document types did the job perfectly in most cases and almost did the job in the last few.
Cheers,
Niels...
Jeeeez, did I really start this :-)
Founder of the Umbraco project
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hartvig wrote:My job is to challenge every single feature that people wants to add, and "no by default" has always been my mantra. I couldn't agree more. New features must be driven by real needs and not whims. We don't want a bloated system full of complicated junk. If we did, we'd be using DNN. ;-) Seriously, this whole thing is a perfect case study on the right way to manage an OS project. Niels initially resisted what he saw as something that would unnecessarily complicate umbraco. But once he was convinced by those of us who use it everyday that this is something we really need, he very quickly responded. Nicely done.
Pete Koutoulas • Fayette County Public Schools • Lexington, Kentucky
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Rank: Fanatic
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Posts: 265
Location: London, UK.
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No.
A dialogue that says "If you delete this Document Type, you will be deleting 479 currently published documents. Are you sure you want to do this? This action will be unrecoverable. Don't even think about checking the recycle bin."
It's easily done when deleting multiple document types. That AJAXy tree listing is slow to redraw and can cause all sorts of issues that I suspect confuse the CMS as to what exactly should be deleted.
I'll eat a whole jar of marmite if I'm the only one who has experienced this.
Richard
2 * 3 * 3 * 37 : The prime factorisation of The Beast.
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